Purgatory is defined as a state of being, the continuing process of purgation or purification of the soul after human death. It is a state of perfection--begun in baptism and faith-consummated after death, entered into only by those who are saved. In other words, our transformation in Christ (Rom 13:14, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ")(But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.) This verse is telling us to practice christ-likeness. Wrong quotation to mean to go through purgatory first to be like christ. , our perfection in the holiness of the Father (1 Pet 1:16, "Be holy, because I (am) holy")(1Pet 1:13-16 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient Children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of Conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.) Same here, the Catholic Church likes to quote fragments of verses to support it's beliefs. If you read from verse 13 onwards, It is Peter telling us to be Christ-like again. To be a good testimony to others. Be holy in conversation... No where does it say we will go to purgatory to become holy like God. is not ended at our physical death. Purgatory is a sign of God's mercy on those who have honestly sought to know God and to do His will in this life and yet die in some degree of bondage to sin or the effects of sin. There are only 2 verses i can quote to show you that if you are really a child of God, You are free of sin. You are not under bondage of sin or the effect of sin, unless you are not born again, or you are just a physically professing Christian, not a real believer. the Verses are Romans 6:18,22 "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.... How can one keep sinning knowingly and claim to be a child of God? All we need to pray for forgiveness. 1John 1 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness... How can we be righteous again? Refer to 1John 1.
The Church has only two official teachings concerning purgatory:
- it exists, (Who says so? The Roman Catholic Church or God) Who will you listen to? Man or God? and
- our prayers help the souls in purgatory. (This is only claimed in Macabees, where the bulk of contradictions in the Catholic Bible is found.)
God is revealed as perfect interior holiness.
- Is 6:3
- "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts!" they (the Seraphim) cried one to the other. How does this show that purgatory exist? It is just a dying ploy to try and claim something that does not exist.
We are called to that same holiness.
- Lv 19:2
- "Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the Lord your God, am holy." Yes this is true. But still... How do we be holy? Going to purgatory?
- 1 Pet 1:15-16
- As he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct (Conversation), for it is written, "Be holy because I (am) holy."
Who can stand in the face of the holiness of God? the answer is No one. But if we are children of God, will you fear to see your father? Unless all is just an act.
- Ps 15:1
- Lord, who may abide in your tent? Who may dwell on your holy mountain? why leave out verse 2? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart... and verse 3,4,5??? Why leave it out? I thought the writer was searhing for an answer? SO where is it?
- Ps 66:18
- Had I cherished evil in my heart, the Lord would not have heard. that is because David sinned. But what did he do? He prayed. Again the writer purposely left out verse 19 and 20... But verily God hth heard me; he hath attended to the voice of my prayer. Blessed be God, which hath not turned away my prayer, nor his mercy from me.
- Heb 12:14
- Strive for peace with everyone, and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord. As usual, read the whole Hebrews 12, and you will see it is an Exhortation to Faith and be faithful, and be christlike...
- Eph 5:3
- Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones. "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints" Are we saints? Yes if we have really accepted christ as our personal lord and savior. SO what should we do? We should flee from sin.
- Ex 33:18-20
- Then Moses said, "Do let me see your glory!" He (Yahweh) answered, "I will make all my beauty pass before you, and in your presence I will pronounce my name, 'Lord'; I who show favors to whom I will, I who grant mercy to whom I will. But my face you cannot see, for no man sees me and still lives." Oh.. Now the Catholic Church quotes the whole verse, because it somehow seems like it can support Purgatory.. No one can see the face of the lord because he is too Holy... Any any man that sees his face will perish. Okay. Still, this verse does not say if you cannot see God unless you go through Purgatory.
- Rev 21:27
- ... but nothing unclean will enter it (the City of God), nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Okay... the first part of the verse says nothing unclean, or abomination will enter the gates of heaven... EXCEPT those names written in the Book of life. So. Are you born again? are you going to Heaven? ARE YOU GOING TO PURGATORY FIRST??? Did God say that there are those who are unclean and tell lies and do abominable things but their names are written in the book of life. and they will go to a place to be cleansed of their sins before they can enter??? NO!!!
- Eph 5:25-27
- Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her (the Church) to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Is the Catholic church or any other Protestant church today without blemish? I do not think so. There are flaws in every church... AND obviously, God didn't mean the Church to be the physical church as the Catholics have claimed for centuries. God did not die for the Catholic Church only, but for the whole world... The Church is a whole assembly of believers who really confess with all their hearts that Jesus Christ is LORD, Not specifically the Catholic Church.
We are deprived of the vision of God because of our sinfulness. But there is a divine purging fire which can heal us.
- Heb 12:29
- For our God is a consuming fire. Where is Purgatory in this argument?
- Heb 12:6,10
- For whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges. ... but he does so for our benefit, in order that we may share his holiness. "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness." The lord punishes us in his own way. He allows bad things to befall us when we sin. It is indeed for our own good. But still, Purgatory is not in the Picture.
- Is 6:5-7
- Then I (Isaiah) said, "Woe is me, I am doomed! For I am a man of unclean lips, living among a people of unclean lips; yet my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!" Then one of the seraphim flew to me, holding an ember which he had taken with tongs from the altar. He touched my mouth with it. "See," he said, "now that this has touched your lips, your wickedness is removed, your sin purged." Yes. A miracle happened here. The lord wanted to assure Isaiah that he was not doomed, as he still had to carry out the work of the Lord. It was just an assurance. God could have just told him. But we sometimes would rather see something done rather than said. Thats why God showed him a sign to comfort him. As before? will we all go to purgatory, and seraphims will touch our lips with coals before we ascend to heaven? No...
- 1 Cor 3:11-15
- For no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. Okay... as usual, I've heard this from many Catholics who insist the existance of Purgatory. Do you read the whole chapter or only a few verses to assure yourself? Do you know in what Context God said that? To state it simply, the Lord is trying to say that, no matter how great your works are on earth, and how great you proclaim to believe in the lord, Persecution will show whether you are really in the Lord or were just "acting". The fire here does not refer to Purgatory. You can say you believe with all your heart, but when persecution comes your way, you turn your back on christ. That is the testing of your faith... If your have true faith, your works are built upon Jesus Christ. If your Faith is false, you have built your house upon Gold, silver, precious stones, wood hay and stubble... Which will be easily burnt by fire... And only persecution will show who the real believers are.
- 1 Pet 1:7
- The genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Now you see? The genuineness of your faith... It is stated so clearly here. No more comments.
Jesus implies that our sins can be forgiven in the next world. The next World? It is either Heaven or Hell.. You choose.
- Mt 12:32
- And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. What does it mean in the age to come... Purgatory?
Scripture from the Greek Septuagint, the Old Testament of Christ, the Evangelists and Paul, and of the councils of Hippo and Carthage, affirm purgatory. The Catholics would rather trust the words of man rather than God, and you yourselves can see, the word of Popes, Priests and tradition carried down from olden days hold more water than the word of God.
- 2 Mc 12:42-46 Macabees 1 and 2 Greatly contradict the bible... There is no other contradiction in the bible other than the extra 7 books that the catholic church added in in 1546. That is why the catholics do not trust wholeheartedly in the bible. They see contradiction. But who added in the Contradiction? They themselves.
- Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. This is really in Macabees... Which stands so strongly for the existance of Purgatory.... Written by Who??? its unknown... Maybe by some Catholic leader?
Experience teaches us that there are people who die so suddenly, they have not had the opportunity to confess their sins, but are not guilty of serious "death dealing" sin and separation from God. God Judges everyone according to their sin... The unborn children, the people who never heard the gospel, all are judged according to God's own methods... Who are we to say where they go? God does not say in the bible what happens to these people... He didn't say they were going to heaven, or hell, or even purgatory. Assume all you want.
The constant (it is in no way constant) faith of the Church affirms the belief in purgatory.(True faith lies in the believing of God's Word)
From the earliest of times, the Fathers of the Church taught the existence of purgatory: Tertullian (Rome, 160 - 220?), Origen (Alexandria, 185 - 254?), Cyprian (Carthage, 200 - 258), Ambrose (Tier, 340 - 397), Augustine (Numidia, 354 - 430), Basil (Caesarea, 329 - 379), Gregory of Nazianzus (in Cappadocia, 329 - 389), John Chrysostom (Antioch, 349 - 407), Gregory the Great (Rome, 540 - 604), and many others. following the crowd? Since many others sin? Why not i sin? Is that a vaild excuse?
The teaching Magisterium of the Church also affirms the belief in purgatory. year after year, flaw after flaw, lies after lies, cover up one after another, There is never a day when the Catholic Church will admit they are wrong.
- Council of Lyons II (1274)
- We believe ... that the souls, by the purifying compensation are purged after death.
- Council of Florence
- Repeated the Council of Lyons II.
- Council of Trent (1545-1563)
- We constantly hold that purgatory exists, and that the souls of the faithful there detained are helped by the prayers of the faithful.
- Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 1031
- The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture (which were all wrong referance and interpretation), speaks of cleansing fire.
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand (No... You do not understand... You assume.. You hope... You dream. There is no truth in Purgatory) that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come. - Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 1472 (year after year, the catholic church teaches this. It is no wonder, so many people accept it as the truth, not even bothering to really look into the word of God to see for themselves what contradiction and irony there is in the belief of Purgatory)
- To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.
Limbo
This limbo thing is for your own reading enjoyment... It is not even officially accepted by the Catholic Church, but still under construction, just like purgatory was in year 593.
The word limbo comes from the Latin word limbus which means a border, a hem, or fringe around the edge of a garment.
The term is associated in common parlance to mean some in-between state of being. It is often associated, in a religious context, with some state of being in neither heaven nor hell, therefore on the fringe of either. It has been used to refer to the abode for the dead who were neither capable of committing deadly sin (1 Jn 5:16) which excluded the soul from hell nor were baptized in water and the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5)which excluded the soul from heaven.
There never has been nor is there any official Roman Catholic doctrinal position or teaching on the existence of or state of limbo. It is just another invention of the Catholic Church. Quite a nice name though. Limbo..
It must be stated that the term limbo receives a lot of attention in pastoral practice when pastors had to explain the mind of God to distraught parents whose newborn infant has died without being baptized.
- Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 1261
- As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. (allow us to hope... yes... we hope. But who says that baptism ensures salvation besides the Catholic Church? The bible does not say it, SO? Who will you believe?) All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
With this, I end this Post. I sincerly hope all those that read this will really think whether you want to believe in the Word of God, or the Words of Man....
God bless all those that are in His Church.
Friday, July 15, 2005
